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Donna Lind has given her entire adult life to the service of the citizens of Scotts Valley. Thats over 40 years of unblemished service. If she wrote what you say then maybe she had her reasons. But I wouldn't reject her over one letter to the editor.

In the 50 years you have been a civil engineer did you ever overstate anything, make a miscalculation, or build something you regretted? Mr. Dittert, I appreciate that you use your name and stand by your resume. You will find Donna does as well.

Unfortunately, many of the venemous and anonymous bloggers who post on this site lack that characteristic. They shoot em from the cheap seats and hope something sticks.

I'm looking for candidate whose interest in civic service extends to more than an interest in killing Target. Are they a candidate of ideas, of compassion, of reason, with a generous spirit, and a real interest in the well being of Scotts Valley? That will be the candidate that gets my vote.






Votes: +14

You certainly have impressive credentials. I never meant to imply that you were anything but a forthright and stand up guy. I even commended you on your use of your own name. Did you really think that I meant you were dishonest or unethical? I don't even know you and I would never think to do a background check on your engineers license.

I only meant to point out that we, as humans, are all imperfect.

I've found that most people have redeeming qualities in spite of their shortcomings.

We will all be living together when the Target debate is over, whichever way it goes and I do know that Donna was treated badly by some members of the Monte Fiore Association.

I go way back in Scotts Valley Les. Back to the days of Santa's Village and the Cavalcade. Back to the days when there were only two traffic lights. Back to the days when the only shopping center in town was Kings Village and it was brand new. I mourn the loss of open space and the days when you could ride a horse up Scotts Valley Dr.

The trade off to that loss has been the "new" people who have come to live and work in those lost empty places. Most of my closest friends live in those places and I couldn't imagine life here without them.

I know Target is not a new neighborhood and that many believe it is ugly. I also know that outside of the million dollar homes in Scotts Valley are lots of people who might need an affordable place to shop and that for many the jobs, that are so easily dismissed by many of the opponents, will be welcomed.

I'm not sold on Target at all. What I dislike are the moralizers, neo-environmentalists, and nimby minded opponents, who never gave a damn about Scotts Valley until it landed in their neighborhood.

If any of the "anti-Target" candidates have the qualities that I listed in my first response to your letter they will get my full consideration.

A question:

Will Target be taller than the Hilton? If so how much? Are there any landscaping designs or architectural features to soften look?

In my opinion there are few structures in Scotts Valley that have many redeeming architectural qualities. We are a city of three large subdivisions Skypark, Monte Fiore, and Vineyards, many much smaller ones, individual homes, condo's and strip centers. I can't think of one that wouldn't make Frank Lloyd Wright throw up.


Votes: +11

Is it taller than the Hilton? Yes or No. What it the height difference? And yes, I realize the Hilton is set considerably farther back from the road.

Would you support a redesign or reduction in size of the building or a reconfiguration of the site that allows Target to be built? What happened to the right idea wrong location argument?

Does the project contain any design features to mitigate its height?

Do the candidates who oppose Target have an idea of what they would support? If so, what is it?

Won't any development contribute to crime to some degree? What level of increase do you consider acceptable?

The latest opponent decries the loss of habitat for raptors and deer. That seems to trump your reasonable development idea.

Yes, I have an interest in architecture. Appreciate the compliment. That's what it was right? Votes: +10

Steve's comments highlight just how early we are in the overall process of approving / adjusting / denying the Target project. Target Corp. is making a proposal. Environmental impact information is being gathered at this point. That will be subject to public review and comment. That cumulative information (including the responses to any comments) will then be bundled with the project proposal for a review process. At that point, we start discussing adjustments that could make the project more palatable for SV -- that discussion will likely include issues about site coverage, heights, setbacks, hours of operation, offsite mitigations, lighting, security, etc., etc. It will all be on the table. If we (as a governing body elected by our citizens) can find a project (including mitigations) that seems suitable, we approve it. Does Target build it? That depends on them (and this is what their broker was referring to when he said at the meeting that it was Target's choice whether to build in SV or not).

I spoke with the Monte Fiori leadership many, many months ago about this process and suggested that rather than focus exclusively on objecting to the project that they also devote some energy to what they might be able to get out of the project, in the form of mitigations or compensations, in case their "no Target" strategy ultimately was unsuccessful. I'm not one to make predictions, but I repeat this advise for them, as a hedging strategy. The Planning Commission and City Council will always try to look out for the needs and benefits of neighborhoods when they are likely to be impacted by new developments, but it is helpful when those neighborhoods provide constructive input to the process. All of the project mitigations and compensations need to be decided before the final vote is taken. If the only input from the neighborhood during the process is "just say no", but the decision ultimately becomes a "yes", it will be too late to ask for additional compensations. I do not believe that asking for reasonable mitigations, in case the project is approved, diminishes in any way your rights to prefer the project be denied altogether. So I'm suggesting that you broaden your efforts to think of things that could make a Target at this site more palatable. Just a suggestion. Votes: +6

Paul,

Surely you understand that the landowner (and those that have debt secured by this land)are not inclined to develop the property in a manner that doesn't pay off their debts and, to the extent possible, bring them some profit. This property, along with all the others in the GW South project zone, have been paying off their 'fair share' of the infrastructure improvements that were installed that allowed any development to occur. The first project to develop / benefit from these improvements was Monte Fiori; the second was the hotel and then the apartment/townhouse complex across Mt. Hermon. Those landowners have presumably paid off their debts with the sale and use of their projects. The large remaining open parcel is still encumbered (and may have other encumbrances as well). There's really no likelihood that they will propose and develop something that you or other neighbors might think is "appropriate" but that results in a major net financial loss to them. I imagine their might be some end game down the road where a landowner might just write something off and donate the land, but I wouldn't hold my breath for that (at least not in this situation).

The office building was approved, I believe (despite Dene's "no" vote). As had been stated several times, the broker went shopping for other prospective tenants (ultimately finding Target) because he did not foresee any tenants for the office building on any foreseeable timeframe. They made clear that they would not build the building without tenants pretty firmly locked up -- we asked exactly this question at the Planning Commission because we didn't want a large and beautiful (but empty shell) building at our gateway.

So when I talk about thinking about alternatives, I am referring to alternative / additional strategies for dealing with the project that is on the table. By the way, housing was one of the proposals several years ago. It was met with widescale objections (I'll let you do the research to find out from which quarters). Votes: +9

Wow, we're stooping to this already? Shameful. As I recall, Torrey got himself in trouble with credit card debt. He admitted his problem and suffered enormously for it. That doesn't make him a bad person; it puts him in the same boat as many thousands of other Americans at this time who have made personal financial decisions without properly understanding the risks, and/or were fearful of the repercussions if their errors became known. The only thing this shows me about Donna is that she's a person with some compassion and understanding and an ability to give people who have made a mistake the opportunity to show that they are still capable of doing good things.

If I was in need of website help and knew Torrey well enough, I wouldn't hesitate to ask it of him, either.

I'm hopeful that none of the council candidates could possibly be behind or endorse such a slanderous and uncalled for comment. Votes: +7

Hey "Remember" -- Please tell us which candidate you are supporting so the community can decide whether to support those who reach out and help others or those whose supporters launch such ridiculous attacks against those who reach out and help others. Votes: +11

TO: written by Remember Torrey Loomis, September 26, 2008

Ditto to Mike's comments with regard to Torrey and Donna. How cowardly of you to post such comments with out using your name. If there is one person who cares about Scotts Valley (not just the target issue) is Donna Lind. Torrey made a mistake, he paid for it and is now is very successful in his new line of work. I too, would trust him to work for me. Shame on you!!!! Votes: +12

Donna Lind has nothing to apologize for. Torrey Loomis made a huge mistake and paid the price. He's a fine husband and father who is doing the right thing by his family and society. Votes: +13

I just can't believe you guys/gals are making an issue of Donna's judgement based on who she has compose / manage her web page! Does his financial misdeeds of the past suggest he will somehow criminally corrupt and mislead voters through URL magic? Is that what your anti-Donna / pro - ??? campaign will be based on? Whoever you're supporting for council ought to step up and shut you guys down before you further embarrass yourself with this silly witch hunt. Anonymous and irrelevant slander of other candidates is no way to run a campaign (except when running for President, of course). Votes: +11

I'm saddened that -- whoever you are -- you've decided to launch a mud-slinging campaign for absolutely no reason (who really cares who is managing a website?). Our community deserves better, and I'll repeat my request for your chosen candidate (it seems apparent to me who that is) should disavow this behavior. As for my campaign, for school board, I have no interest in finding any flaws or passing any judgements or doing any background checks on my "opponents". My hat's off to them for being willing to step up and take on a role of great importance, high stress, huge time demands, and no tangible rewards (the intangible reward -- that of serving the community -- is a priceless treasure). Donna has made herself a public figure and thus her judgement is subject to some level of public scrutiny. My sense of the SV public is that they are a lot more interested in their Council candidates' substantive positions on public safety, budget management, development, environment, and infrastructure. If you want to defeat her at the polls, I suggest you talk about your candidate's strengths and qualities in these areas. Continuing down your current path is really insulting to the voters in our town. Votes: +13

There are very few people in this world who can truly say that they have never done anything that turned out to be a mistake (some big).
For those that consider themselves self-appointed Judges, they apparently judge much more harshly than even our own Judicial system. If those who judge had their way, no one guilty of such mistakes would ever be allowed to return to 'doing something good' for their family, friends, community, or society. There is something called the 'letter of the law' and the 'spirit of the law'. Justice exists in both applications.
Quoting the Santa Cruz Sentinel on details of the Torrey Loomis case demonstrates two things: 1)Your sources are narrow and incomplete, and 2)You make assumptions based on narrow and incomplete information.
The public gets information from the press that is basic and brief. You know nothing of the 'rest of the story', as judgemental people rarely do.
It is a solid fact that Donna Lind's retirement has absolutely nothing to do with Torrey Loomis, past or present. Donna retired with honor, after a long and productive career in a very demanding field that requires sacrifices very few are willing to make for their job.
For those of you who judge in such a way-- do you honestly think that someone who makes a critical error, forever loses their hard-earned career, pays their debt and forever carries a felony conviction for a non-violent crime should be banned from doing anything productive or positive for industry or society??? Votes: +10

TO: Lets hear how this showed good judgment

So, in you world if someone has a felony on their record they are not fit to work in any public position or assist in the public? Is that correct?
In your world people are not allowed to make a mistake AND PAY FOR THEIR MISTAKE. They are forever written off as bad people. Please tell me who you are so I know who NOT to be friends or associates with.
Votes: +8

If this is not about Torrey Loomis, and you are not judging Donna for choosing someone who has clearly made amends after a huge error in life, then why did you even bring it up to begin with?
If you think that it is acceptable for someone who has made amends to contribute to society using his skills for good and helping others, then why should Donna have to explain herself? She obviously has nothing to explain. Votes: +9

No one needs to speak for Donna - maybe she doesn't read this? did that ever occure to you? My comments are not about Donna they are about YOU and your harping on someone who has done eveything in his life to make amends for his mistakes. He is a good friend to many and would still come to your aid if you needed it. I have no idea who Donna works with but knowing that she works with Torrey shows excellent judgement because it shows she can look at the whole person not just one snap shot of their life. Unlike you who wont even use you name. Votes: +9

The only error that I see Donna has made was not anticipating that somebody would go to the trouble of researching who registered and designed her web page and try to make an issue out of absolutely nothing. Of course, maybe she did anticipate that and is now thanking you for giving her such extra press and revealing the character of one of her opponents. We don't need to hear from Donna about this -- we need to hear from your chosen candidate and why he believes he is better qualified to be a councilmember based on his judgement to either launch or sponsor this attack, or at the least playing passive-aggressive while it is ongoing.

The League of Women Voters has given me a chance to reach a wider audience by creating a candidate website at www.smartvoter.org/vote/shulman. I hope I haven't failed the judgement test by accepting their offer. I didn't think to do a thorough background check on them, so it's possible somebody in that organization might have a conviction on their record. I'll take my chances with the voters of SV and trust that they will forgive me this lack of due diligence. Votes: +8

Mr. Shulman, it is disgraceful to equate those who are "in credit card debt" to that of a felon. It isn't that Mr. Loomis was in debt over his head (we don't know if that was the case), but rather, his solution for it. He committed several felonies. But this defending of criminal actions speaks to a much bigger issue. The double standard of applying the law. I guess if you have personal connections with the right people, then you are treated with compassion and suffering from some kind of defect and "made a mistake". Aaahh, how nice and lieniant of you Mr. Shulman. What if it was a black, crackhead living in the ghetto or a Mexican gang member from Watsonville who committed those felonies? Not too much compassion for them, eh? Time to end the good old boy club. Throw the bums out! Votes: -2

This is a small town, and the kind of hate you are spewing is really sad to hear. I don't harbor ill will towards those who are struggling. Why hate a drug addict who is stuck in poverty? When I'm walking with my kids in downtown Santa Cruz, they're quite insistent on putting a dollar in the open guitar case of those trying get by in tough times and providing some help to others through their musical efforts. I commend them for their generosity (they use their own meager allowance for these gifts). Last spring, Ari Symons made a reformed convict / gangmember a centerpiece of her campaign, showing how even a tough prosecutor can reach out and help someone who is trying to help themself. Why are you so angry? There are 12 step programs available; you should check into one.

And what old boys club are you referring to? I came into SV Politics shortly after the 1st and 2nd generation of councils, dominated by those with heavy real estate holdings in town, had given way to a resident-dominated council more interested in environmental stewardship, full mitigations for development impacts, and greater transparency in government business. That was the mentorship I received, and I've tried to live up to that over the years. There have been both boys and girls in that club, some have been old, and some have been young. But they've all, always been focused on serving all of SV's residents and businesses, those that are thriving and those that are struggling. Even you deserve to be represented. But it will be easier for all of us if you would seek some treatment for that mean streak you are carrying around. Votes: +1

Well put Mike. Votes: +3

Its interesting to see both Mr. Smith and Mr. Shulman's writings on these issue's. If you notice when either of them write, about 7 people quickley vote them up and as quickley vote the opposing position down. This method of trying to have any valuable discussion has become worthless. I for one will no longer place my opinion's here or the Scotts Valley Banner. This process has been hijacked by current and former city employees. So go ahead and write your comments Mr. Smith and Mr. Schulman you will only be writing for your city employee fan club. Votes: -2

I certainly agree with you on the pointlessness of the voting mechanisms. The Banner should probably just drop it. So far, I've avoided the temptation of voting my own comments up, figuring that this was against some kind of unwritten rule. But being unwritten, it's probably not followed.

I've never actually thought of myself as a city employee. I've worked in the private sector, and basically for the same employer, for nearly 30 years. I do get paid for my city commission work -- $150/month ($137.13 after taxes). So yeah I suppose that makes me an employee. But I've always felt much more like a citizen volunteer serving as a representative of the public, for an agency that is required (by the laws we have established) to treat such volunteers as their civic leaders. It's not a thankless role, as many often say -- we get thanks from those who we help build what is worthy of being built and we get thanks from those who we help prevent something being built that shouldn't be built (at least not as originally proposed). So when you refer to me as a city employee, it just doesn't align with what I do. I'm a public employee, working for everyone's benefit to the extent I can influence the events that are brought before me. It's a little bit of power that I touch as gently as possible and with a lot of humility. I don't have any particular need to defend city employees any more than I would defend anyone being wronged. Just as I would say something to someone walking out of Kmart with a boombox under their arm. Oh wait, that was from another blog. Sorry. Votes: +5

Actually I agree about the "vote" system the Banner utilizes. The only down votes should be for anonymous muckrakers and their supporters. Votes: +5

There are 40 posts and I wrote 6 of them. 2 of those were little more than one liners. By FAR the most posts were from an anonymous little man trying to throw mud on a decent person. Votes: +4

From what I have seen you and your friends voted up or down as well so don't play the victim. You will get much more respect if you use your name and research the facts the way Mike and Steve have done. My post have been strickly to you and your outright refusal to see what you are doing to Torrey Loomis and using him to slander Donna. I was at Torrey's hearing with many other regular citzens who also believed that Torrey knew what he did was wrong and paid for his mistake in reputation, job and career. He has done everything right for the past 8 years and you and making people who may read your posts think otherwise -THAT IS MY OBJECTION TO YOU. So take you ball to another playground because you don't like how your game is going here - but there aren't many playgrounds that will listen or play with you if you keep up this tone and anominity. Votes: +5

I agree that there is no need to repeat the name of the felon. This is not about him it is about the very poor judgment displayed by a potential Council member who chose to hire a felon to help with her campaign. No one not you nor Mr. Smith nor Mr. Shulman disputes the fact that Donna Lind hired a felon for her campaign. The person that she hired isn't local and he is not the point of this discussion. The point is the displayed lack of judgment by a potential council person. Donna Lind was this person's supervisor on the police force when the crime was committed. One would think that she would have learned something from the experience. Additionally the person that she hired seems to have a successful business in Folsom, he doesn't seem to have needed Officer Linds business. If she had used a little common sense this wouldn't be on the discussion boards. This is about one thing and only one thing - Donna Linds judgment or lack of judgment. That is all it is about. Votes: -2

What proof do you have that he got 'her business? A canceled check? a credit card payment? You keep saying she hired him....other than him being listed as 'originator' of the website (or merely the person who reserved the domain name) - how do you know WHO designed the website? Votes: +2

All one has to do is a whois search on her website name. This really isn't very difficult to do. The individual is listed as both the registered owner as well as the administrator of the site. All of the individuals particulars including his business name and address is there. Other than you no one else seems to doubt the data. If it isn't true that Office Lind has used a felon to help on her campaign we should hear it from her. Votes: -1

Ms. Bridges,Please read my comment again.While reachering my options on voting choices for city council Mr. Lindsay's letter caught my eye. I made no mention of Torry Loomis Ever.
Until reading the responses to Bruce Lindsay's endorsement of Donna Lind I had never heard of Mr.LOOMIS.I formed my initial opinion of Ms. Lind when she wrote in support of Target and it's proposed location in the Scotts Valley Banner which she repeated on the Target web site.I noticed now that she is running for city council she is undecided about Target.I have now taken more time to researching Ms. Lind and she will not get my vote."MY OBJECTION TO YOU" IS ,TAKE A READING COMPREHENSION, ANGER MANAGEMENT CLASS OR CHECK YOURSELF IN ON A 72 HOUR MENTAL HOLD.
Votes: +2

Folks,

All of these anonymous comments are hilarious. A little sad, too.

Donna Lind never hired me to do her website. When we spoke a few months ago, I told her she needed to register a clear and short domain name as soon as possible. Since she was en route to a bunch of meetings at the time, I took care of it for her.

When it came to do the website, I simply didn't have the time. I wish I did, but it was beyond my capability to schedule it in at the time. Besides, she had a local support team ready and capable of getting it done.

So technically--Donna owes me $20 for registering her domain name. I'll be happy to collect that from her in the form of lunch the next time I am in town.

On a broader note, its disrespectful to everyone involved when you post anonymously. I'd respect your opinion far more if you actually posted your names instead of "Remember Torrey Loomis" and "Michael Shulman defends felony fraud" along with "Saddend my as@" and "Lind doesn't have it" and "This is about Donna Linds Judgment."

I had a sinking feeling when I registered the domain that someone could possibly smear Donna with the possible association, but I reconsidered because I thought people wouldn't be that callous and low. I was mistaken and you people have far too much time on your hands.

Since we've left Scotts Valley, we've grown our business into a bustling enterprise that was named to the Inc. 1000 this year along with being named one of the "100 Fastest Growing Businesses in Sacramento" by Sacramento Business Journal for 2007 and for 2008.

Our client list includes:

NASA
Honeywell
Federal Bureau of Investigation
California Highway Patrol
California Medical Association
CA Air Resources Board
Walt Disney Company

Further, in the recent election we've done commercial work for California State Assemblymember Lois Wolk, Candidate for Assembly Fran Florez (Mayor of Shafter Pro Tem), California State Assemblymember Cathleen Galgiani, and West Sacramento Mayor Christopher Cabaldon.

Final note--last time I checked both Scotts Valley Police Department and the City of Scotts Valley were still happily using both websites I designed for them almost 8 years ago. So, unless you feel like indicting all of these people and organizations, I think you should lay off Donna Lind.

If Donna HAD hired us to do her website, she would be in excellent company.

Torrey
Votes: +4

Now that this issue of who really built this site has been cleared up, I sincerely hope that Donna wins a seat on the council.

Scotts Valley could do no better than Donna Lind as one of the most singularly dedicated public servants the city has ever employed.

Torrey Votes: +4

This is what I think.

You have poor judgment, its actually disrespectful of you to take an oath of office then embarrass your town, your department, your boss, your family, then come around here and try and tell us...

Fact is, as a Marine, no one wants contact with a trained killer. Don't be surprised when people don't want you to know their name. While you think your naming your business refrences makes you look trustworthy, it does the exact opposite. I shows only the ones you want to show - how many are you hiding who don't know?

It's like Ted Bundy promoting steak knives, they may be sharp as hell, but the mental image of seeing him while carving the Christmas bird doesn't really go over so well.

and

If you had that sinking feeling..its called poor judgment. You should heed it next time you feel it. If you were really her friend you would have told her for $20 bucks (then its true you were doing business) she could call netsol herself and save you both the hassle, there must be a reason you live a county away. The paper said she raised a pile of money. We will just have to keep an eye on her and her company now that she is an elected official.

and

During all that campaigning, It was rumored, While on active duty as a police officer, she took flowers from her neighborhood yard while in uniform and without permission.
We have a real problem when people in power who think the rules apply to everyone but themselves. Peas in a pod I guess. Why don't you come back and run for council next term, you'll fit in really nice.

and

Do you think that she really did you a favor letting you take the full rap? It looks like she help lead you through the halls of justice with the some of the same contacts which she used to get into office, giving you the most preferable treatment, but from reading the accounts of your blunder, do you expect us to believe that she didn't know you were shopping your software around looking for funding?

What does that say about her judgment? Let me help you, it says that if you were financially successful, you would have raised enough to start a company and bring your friends along for the ride. Everyone who knew was secretly rooting for you, until you took it a bit too far, then you took the rap. Sounds like you could have had better friends.

But they all vouched at what a great officer you were, pulling strings and Donna send the judge a letter on your behalf, News Flash - she owed you that much!! Everyone who knew was probably scared s^^^less, helping you right along to take the moral, and legal rap.

The practical outcome for the city also would have been loosing an officer, maybe two or more. You and her were the Technical gurus - hard to find skills. This is a failure of the city policy as well. Active Firefighters have a perimeter they must be in when on duty, it's a restriction. Hard to hire positions should have policies which are in the benefit of the City. Certain things like launching new products/companies should have a policy. Its not like working extra hours as event security. If Donna wants to make amends, ask her to change the city policy, then there would have likely been no crime of opportunity.

You're a weight around her neck and if you were her friend you should go back to work, it will do her no favors in the long run.

Does this mean you will be back soon?




Votes: -1

Get over yourself!
Votes: +0